The not-so-great Debate

Yes, i know i have been a very naughty girl. Haven't been posting anything for a long time.

What can i say? Busy busy busy...

The Great Debate

Well, i would call this debate 'great' but its a start.

Melayu Lama invited me to the debate yesterday and after a long bout of diarrhea, i pushed off from my home and sped off to Dewan Bahasa. No traffic just that lousy construction near DBP that had me going around in circles.

By the time I arrived there were many people already and the police/security were quite tight. Bag was searched, metal detectors were used...

The 2 guys, Dato' Seri and Datuk were already at the podiums ready for their ensuing battle which was not much of a battle really...

Ah, well.. the gist of it. Or MY gist of it.

Shabery was a sacrificial lamb... we all know that. Anwar is a good speaker, yes we know that too. Shabeery missed the plot from the beginning, anybody could see that.

Anwar's team were well prepared. So was Shabery's team. But Shabery's team prepared themselves for the wrong objectives - character assassination. Anwar's team did well due to factual arguments.

Could've been a better debate if Shabery had stuck to the topic.. but all in all.. its a start. I have got to give it to Shabery for having the guts and the balls to do it. At least SOMEONE in BN had some steel. I can't say I like the guy, but he deserves some respect.

In his opening statement, Anwar said that he does not want to touch on Petronas funds. What he wants to touch on, is the government funds. Half way through the program, Shabery proved that he either wasn't paying attention or just didn't get it. Neither did Kardi (Shabery's guy on the panel). Anwar mentioned that the question was:

Why is the government so eager to conduct bailouts for certain companies -some costing RM 13 billion (PERWAJA) while making a big issue of the RM 3 billion (needed) for helping the people cope with fuel prices?

• Shabery made a good come back by explaining that its a lot of money and that the country's development may be stunted due to this lack of funds just for the people to maintain their current 'way of life'.
• But then he went on the defensive and explained that the current oil prices is not the government's fault but it's because of the world oil crisis.
• But then he goes back in history to explain that this sort of thing has happened before in the history of the world.
• But then he began the personal attacks.

Yep. He didn't get the point.
He should have stopped at the 'country's development', should have never taken the first personal jab. But then, BN guys are trained to do that ..just look at people like Nazri. The guy could never put his point across without personal jabs; and he just can't seem to be able to answer a question directly (just youtube his interview with AlJazeera together with Malik Imtiaz and KJ)

Anwar defended himself well. Showed that he had not lost his touch after all these years. After Shabery's personal attacks, Anwar mentioned that he would not mention Shabery's previous associations with Semangat 46. -To which, i laughed my head off.-

Shabery has to remember, when you want to launch a personal attack, make sure you have nothing that the other guy can throw back in your face. In this case, it's his stint as one of the Semangat 46 leaders.

"Hey Kettle! I'm Shabery, the pot! You're black!"

Next, I think Shabery should have picked a better guy to sit for him on the panel. That Kardi guy is an idiot. Watch the video and you'll see what a total jackass he is. Not only did he make Shabery look bad (Shabery was already doing that himself) but he actually looked like he was proud of it!

Caddy: Dato' Seri, was your premise for the debate today, "Ruler today, Fuel Prices Lower Tomorrow", based on the fact the Malaysia is an oil exporting country?

Anwar: Yes, Malaysia is an oil exporting country. Nett.

Caddy: So why was it, when the premise was tabled, why did you speak of things that had nothing to do with fuel? Why did you touch on topics such as the IPP and what not?

(This is where i start wondering at why did they put this 2 year old infant there.)

Anwar: IPP is related to oil and gas...

Caddy: Ya, but but...

Anwar: (It's) petroleum.

(laughter)

Caddy: Because the premise has been mixed up, I would like to mention some numbers....according to Petronas's annual report, the revenue reported was 223 billion, and out of this 223 billion the oil dug out of Malaysia is about 26% which is 56 billion where Petronas has returned 63 billion to the government, which is 5 billion more than the amount of oil gained from the oil and gas business in Malaysia.

This money is to be invested for the country's economy and you come out and say that if you ruled Malaysia today, you would lower the fuel prices tomorrow, Dato' Seri, you seem
like a child who has lost his father and is trying to divide this wealth, which was gathered from the sweat of the people before, to enjoy it with your friends as if you are a good leader.

I simply must say here, Caddy, that your smug face rubs me the wrong way. There's no reason to act/look smug when you sound like a fool, my dear.

Firstly, the premise may have been mixed up for YOU, Caddy, but not the rest of us. This idiot asked his question, based on Petronas's financial report. Like most BN leaders, this guy needs some facts drilled into his head over and over before he even begins to understand it.

Caddy, we're talking about government funds, sayang. Not Petronas funds.
If you read the paragraphs above and watch the video, you'll see that Anwar mentioned that 'he does not want to touch on Petronas funds' in his opening statement
(obviously Caddy was busy powdering his nose at this time and not paying attention).

Caddy, not only did you miss the memo, you missed the email, the snail mail, the phone call, the fax, the sms, the mms and the briefing. Like whoosh! above your head and missed you completely. Sorry, love but you should learn to catch up to the rest of the population.

Anwar made a good response when he stated that:
Firstly, he does not want to touch Petronas's funds. Its the government's funds he's concerned himself with.
Secondly, the issue is not the fact that petrol prices went up, the issue IS the sudden and very high jump of the fuel prices. He feels that it should be done slowly and gradually so that the people may accustom themselves to it in a gradual way. So that it wouldn't be such a shock to the system and such a painful one.

Makes sense to me.... but then again, i'm not an expert. And the opinions here are my own and no one else's.

Next was Anwar's guy asking a question: Zulkifli Sulong.

Sulong:
In year 2006, the government raised the price of fuel by 30 sen. As a result of this, the government gained around 4.3 billion. The government promised that it would be used for public transportation infrastructure. According to the answer given in parliament recently, the government has only used 834.75 million for the infrastructure of the public transportation since then.

Why did this happen? With this last fuel price hike, the government has raised around 13 billion. If it was so hard to spend the 4.3 billion (in the 2006 fuel hike) till present, how does the government plan to spend this bigger fund?


Shabery made a good comeback too.

• He said that we must be more responsible in spending the money.
• But then he mentioned countries likeVenezuela where the price of fuel is extremely low but it has high inflation rate, one of the highest in Latin America. He also mentioned Iran as one of the countries with low fuel prices and (as a result) high inflation rate. He said that this is because we have must remember that fuel prices not only reflect the prices of fuel.. but also the prices of everything else.
• Then he went off topic. He went to beras or rice. Aiya...
• Then he began another personal attack...
  

Shabery, when you want to win a debate, it would be good if you lay off the personal attacks. People tend to respect that and like you for it. I'm not saying this is a popularity contest, but any fellow with half a brain can tell you that nobody will give you their money/votes if you keep on jabbing them with a knife. Try a little kindness, try some professionalism, try having some class and most of all, try being a gentleman.

True, the price of fuel effects the price of everything else.. but we are talking directly about fuel.. not rice, or sugarcane, or what. Just answer the damn question.
Ooops,... i forgot, maybe the administration has not even thought of how to spend the money...maybe that's too far ahead for them to plan.

Anwar:
In relation to the price of fuel, it would be foolish to attribute this, wholly to the global fuel prices. If you mention Venezuela, Iran and so forth, it's true that the inflation rate went up a bit but if you take into consideration the inflation rate announced by the government, why doesn't The Minister go to the grocery's and buy some fish, onions or even chicken, the prices did not go up by 3%. The last announcement made by the Governor of Bank Negara was 6% or more. All the other banks announced 8% or more.

This means the 'intelligent' economy which was announced, actually CAUSED the raise in inflation rates. This is because of the sudden raise (in fuel prices) was too fast and too high resulting in rise of the prices of other things. So the 'care' (prihatinan) of The Minister to buy things at the inflated prices, goes against the government's (so-called) decision/reasoning.
So the minister's theory -'The price of fuel goes up sharply, inflation will not rise' (when he mentioned Venezuela and Iran)- Where did he learn this economic theory? Raising of prices sharply like that, is bad for the economy.

It's true that the global fuel prices has gone up sharply, BUT for every 1USD rise, we gain RM 360 million with our oil exports. So with the rise in oil prices, our returns are bigger too!

There's no need for the government to confuse the kampung folk by stating that the global fuel prices went up in London, in Paris, in China and in India. We are an oil exporting country. Yes, (the fuel) prices went up compared to the prices 10 years ago, but you can't burden the people (so much).

AND I would like to stress here, this rise CAUSES the economy to deteriorate.

Interesting. I'm no economic expert but i must say, he makes sense to me.

Next the Caddy guy annoyed me even more...(this guy was beginning to look like an ass here. I swear I could see his face elongate and long ears sprouting) Ok, this was his question:

Caddy:
Just now, I asked Dato' Seri Anwar's commitment that his premise that the price of fuel should go down by 50 cents was based on Malaysia being an oil exporting country , after which, i read the data mentioning the oil returns of this country was only 26%. So I see that the issue brought up by Dato' Seri Anwar is not the issue of fuel anymore but he chose the topic of fuel to lessen in to 50 cents.

But why not (since fuel is not the issue) talk about lessening the taxes? Such as when the government does not tax those with income less than RM2000. Why not ask for homes to help the poor living in the city? Why choose fuel? Why doesn't Dato' Seri Anwar promise to lower inflation which he says from 80% to 3%?

So my question to Datuk Shabery is, why did Dato' Seri Anwar choose fuel as the target of his promise to the people if he should rule tomorrow?

I'm sorry, but I must have missed THIS memo. Why is he asking Shabery "why Anwar is targetting fuel"? He should have asked Anwar that. Why ask Shabery? He was turning the debate into a joke, the prick. He just wasted a good opportunity to ask a really good question.. for Shabery to redeem himself and the government.

Like i said earlier, Why? Why? Oh, why did they choose this moronic inferno of stupidity to ask the questions? Didn't they have anyone better? Were the pickings slim? Is this really Vice Chancellor material?

Tan Sri Nordin Kardi, I'm so glad i didn't go to UUM. I would be so ashamed to have you as a VC. You are lame, you don't listen (hearing aid might help), you are in way over your head, you are a disgrace to BN. And you have the audacity to look smug while stinking the room. Your lack of understanding and the hot air coming out of your mouth reeks so bad that the whole country can smell it.
Look smug, my friend. That's all you got.
(Ugh, annoying little man) Even Shabery's not as bad.

What was Shabery's answer to Caddy's question?
Like my friends say, "Ask a stupid question, you get a stupid answer."

Shabery:
I think the question was asked to me due to feelings regarding the wrong premises earlier.
When we talk about us being an oil exporting country, I would like to ask, where are we in the list of the world's oil producing country? Are we even in the top 20 world's oil exporter? We are not even in the top 20. We are small.

Let's not compare ourselves to Saudi, Venezuela, Iran. Let's not compare ourselves to other countries. We are too small.

La... pulak dah. Shabery, stop contradicting yourself. You also another idiot. YOU started comparing us to Venezuela and then Iran. Now you're saying 'don't compare ourselves' to these countries. I hope you look back at the videos and see what you just did. It's embarrassing.

Politicians always do this, to be fair i'll say ALL politicians. They contradict themselves. Some are so talented that they can do it in just one sentence. It is so glaring to me when it comes from BN's mouthpieces because so many of them do it. And they do it so shamelessly. Again, look at Nazri. (Man, just mentioning that guy gives me the pricks)

But Shabery made a reasonably good argument next:

Shabery:
That being said, our oil has been mined for 100 years, we are near the end. We are still a nett oil exporter, but a small one nevertheless.

In the topic of oil revenue, what was mentioned earlier is not true. In actual fact, our revenue from oil is only 26% of the government funds. The rest is from investments.
Think of the year 2015, when we no longer have oil and we become nett importers of oil, is this (the time) when we will start following the world's oil price? That is, IF people want to sell oil to us... what if no one's selling to us?

This is why it becomes Petronas' responsibility (even though they have given so much to the country) to look for oil outside the country. And thank you to Petronas where under Dr Mahathir's guidance (for example) they reached out to 33 other countries to mine for oil. Until we became a country with one of the most renowned oil companies in the world.
That is why we (government) feel that we shouldn't make Petronas poorer with regards to this issue. We must be realistic. Our oil is not that much. (The rest is just a bunch of lame jokes)

Shabery, the reason why i say that this is a reasonably good argument, is because it would be a good argument if Anwar was basing his argument on Petronas' funds. We are currently talking about the government funds (which were contributed by Petronas because they happen to be our country's oil and gas company) but the bottomline, is that the topic is the Government funds.

Next:


Again Shabery continues with the personal attacks. No doubt what he says is/may be true but please stay in the present. Anwar probably did those things that he mentioned but that is not the issue here. If the topic is about Anwar, I can understand, but the topic is fuel prices. Don't waste my time on Anwar, Shabery.

Oh ya, he (again) compared us to Venezuela, Iran etc... when he (himself) said earlier that we shouldn't compare ourselves to them.
The mind is boggled at this.

Anwar's answer here.



When he said:

"Kalau ahli-ahli Yang Berhormat, ahli-ahli Parlimen pun tak paham ini, problem kita ni!"
If our members of parliament don't even understand this, we have a serious problem!

My thoughts exactly. I can't say I agree with everything Anwar says, but I must say he put up a good case. And it annoys me when we keep on going back to the same point:

Anwar's not talking about Petronas' funds. He's talking about the government funds.

It can't be that hard to understand right? But i guess when it comes to BN, you need to drill it into them over and over and over and over and over again... for them to actually BEGIN to understand what would take a 5 year old 2 seconds to understand.

Oh ya, and when they finally get it, they behave like it was their idea in the first place. Thieves the lot of them.

Some are probably murderers too. (But that's another story)

Next Anwar answers a question from Johan Jaafar (Dewan Bahasa Pustaka).


I like his answer. Populistic ("Populis") or not, I like it.
Next was Shabery's turn. But Shabery should lay off the personal attacks. He was beginning to look like Nordin Kardi at this point. He goes on and says we shouldn't rely on Petronas' revenue. Will he ever get it?

Shabery, I realise that your skull is strong and thick but please get it:

ANWAR IS NOT TALKING ABOUT PETRONAS FUNDS. HE'S TALKING ABOUT GOVERNMENT FUNDS. YOU CAN'T BE THAT THICK, CAN YOU?

If it was done on purpose, i understand. But if it's not done on purpose, it is a big disappointment when the Information Minister, can't understand the information/statement being told to him.
We can't have a dungu as Information Minister can we?

This is their closing statements.


I liked Anwar's beginning when he speaks 'points' form.
But his ending sucks.

Anwar, you should have finished more professionally. This is not a platform for you to campaign for yourself. This contradicts with your statement that this particular debate is about the people and not a partisan thing. Shame on you. Shame on you!

Shabery, you should stop the damn personal attacks. You seem so unprofessional, lame and lacking style and finesse. And your last statement that this debate proves the 'openness' of the Barisan Nasional government... grates on me a little. But yes, I have to admit that IF they continue to allow open debates such as this, to go on... YES they are more 'open'. BUT that is yet to be seen.

Also, i would like to mention that the government should send relevant people like the Finance Minister (oops, is that the PM too? He holds the power AND the purse? How lovely for him.) to participate in debates on the relevant topics.

I think the topic on prices of fuel should be represented by the Finance Ministry and not the Information. That's why you get thick arses like Shabery and Caddy who just don't get the point. It is possible they do not know the difference between Petronas funds and Government funds.

Lastly, I'd buy Shabery a drink any day... but hopefully I won't have to be in the same room as Nordin Caddy. He's just too much of an idiot... this is what i call, bodoh sombong.

Anwar, I'd buy him a drink too but that doesn't mean I'm fanatical (like some people are) about him. There are just bigger things to worry about than just one man.

All in all, I think both guys did a good job. Except the part where Shabery kept on going back to frigging Petronas funds when its government funds being the issue here. Other than that, both deserve points for having the balls to go through with the debate. And I sincerely hope we have more to come.

My not-so-great encounter
Lastly, I had an encounter with some supporters in the crowd. This guy was very strung up and excited throughout the debate. To the point that he was becoming too distracting for the rest of us. He was smacking his head and throwing his hands up in the air when Shabery was talking ...he even shouted something at one time. The guy behind me shushed the guy and said that he should stop distracting the other people. You know want the distractor did?

He cock-stared the guy behind me and said "Fuck". The effect was quite disturbing as this guy seemed like the pious type... always got 'air sembahyang' (ablutions) etc. Yes, quite disturbing indeed because he looked ready to get into a brawl then.

I would like to say here, that Malaysian audiences should learn to take a debate as it is. Your purpose is not only to support one party or the other. You should take that opportunity to listen to the other side of the argument, to digest it and then to seek the truth of it.

Don't hero-worship one person or the other. Try to look at the bigger picture. It's not about Anwar, Pak Lah or even (yes, i'm giving too much credit to him but what-the-hell) Khairy.
It's about you and me.

That's YOU and ME and what's best for us. If you're an Anwar supporter, Najib supporter or even Pak Lah supporter... by all means its your choice. But never hero-worship them. They are just people like you and me (minus the money and the breeding).

Seek what's best for us, the rakyat. Although we might not agree on what is best for us, at least our eyes are open to other options....

You know?